Horseshoe Lake - Camp Horseshoe for Boys

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 why did Camp Horseshoe close?
Author: Sheila Wagner 
Date:   08-15-04 21:39

Hi, my son went to the new Camp Horseshoe this year. I knew nothing about it and didn't know it was just re-opened until he came home and told me about it. It was a great camp and I don't think he will ever forget the experience. One thing he told me was that the camp close because an upset camper set fire to all the cabins and burned the whole place down in 1989. I was just wondering if that is true. Thanks, Sheila

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 Re: why did Camp Horseshoe close?
Author: Tripp Hainsfurther 
Date:   08-16-04 08:19

Well Shelia, that is a very interesting story, but not true.

Faced with declining enrollment, the owners of the camp, the Morrison family, decided to sell the facilities. There were several groups interested in purchasing the camp, including some who wanted to maintail the camp's operations. In the end, the best return for the family was to sell to developers who sub-divided the property and built vacation homes and a golf course.

Having helped Jordan with the "new" Horseshoe, I can tell you it is a beautiful place, but not as large physically as the grounds of the old camp.

I hope your son had a great time. I visited camp in the 3rd week and thought everything was going absolutely super. I was really impressed with the spirit that had developed in a very short time.

Tripp Hainsfurther

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 Re: why did Camp Horseshoe close?
Author: ... 
Date:   08-18-04 18:58

It seems like you made an informed choice in your son's summer experience. Good job with your research and learning all the facets of the camp

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 Re: why did Camp Horseshoe close?
Author: Sheila Wagner 
Date:   08-23-04 07:37

For your information I did research the camp and many others before I made my choice. Though nothing I read or talk to people about told me it was being re-opened, I did learn of all the traditions that went with the camp. I also talked with the Shiner's and director's of other camps. This is the first time I have ever sent my son to camp and just because I didn't know the complete history does not mean I didn't do research on the camp before I sent him. At the time I thought I was making the best choice for his needs and after he returned I KNOW I made the right choice. Camp Horseshoe was a great camp, better than I ever expected. I am a single mom and I do everything I can for my kids, I would never put them in danger. My son came home from camp with this crazy story that I figured was not true but I thought I would ask to be sure. I am sure your son has never come home and told you stories he heard and you wondered if they were really true. I guess your family is the first in hisory to have kids that don't come home with wild stories.

By the way, if you are going to go out of your way to be nasty at least have the guts to post your name.

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 Re: why did Camp Horseshoe close?
Author: Sheila Wagner 
Date:   08-23-04 07:39

Thanks Tripp, I figured it wasn't true but thought I would ask anyway. Horseshoe was a great camp and I am glad I sent him there instead of the many others I looked at.

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 Re: why did Camp Horseshoe close?
Author: Sheila Wagner 
Date:   08-23-04 07:47

I didn't realize what I had wrote. I did know a lot about Camp Horseshoe, I just didn't know about it re-opening or why it had closed. Nothing I read said it was the first year, probably for good reason. If I knew it was the first year I probably wouldn't have sent my son and that would have been a big mistake.

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 Re: why did Camp Horseshoe close?
Author: ... 
Date:   08-23-04 18:07

Sorry, don't take it personally...just wondering-- when you did research about horeshoe, what traditions did you learn about that were original horseshoe traditions? I've heard that a lot of the new 'special' activities that go on at horseshoe these days are just rip-offs of other camps.

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 Re: why did Camp Horseshoe close?
Author: -- 
Date:   08-23-04 19:38

Attn. Alumni:

I respect deep-seeded tradition more than anything else at camp. Please enlighten me on this tradition at your camp-- did you participate in this as a camper? Did Doc H. begin this tradition? Do these traditions even have any correlation to the general themes and concepts (hailing to the forrest, rangers, etc.) of your camp?

I just walked into a silent office as all the campers and counselors are sitting around campfires that overlook Lake Snowden. Tonight is our first Council Horseshoe. Every Sunday night camp slows down and we become a little introspective. The Council Horseshoe is a ceremony where the boys are given a chance to talk about camp and reflect on the things that are going on day to day. Each village is led by a veteran counselor who acts as the Chief of that village. It is a great honor to be in this role, for these are the staff men that make up our unit heads and leadership team. Scott Bernstein is the Chief of the Pioneers, Charles Lucterhand is the Chief of the Woodsmen, Jimmy Levin is the Chief of the Foresters, Matt Meltzer is the Chief of the Guides and Danny Robbins is the Chief of the Rangers. Also, Jon Rottter is the Chief of the Founders, Quenotah, our tribe of initiation, Jamie Gross is the Chief of Na’tane, Little Chiefs and Chris Giles is the Chief of Golden Horseshoe. We also have Big H, Harry Prendergast and Bill Engel as our Sages, Chiefs of Tradition and Lee Cush and Jeff Holmes as Keepers of the Chief.

The boys were also elected to leadership rolls within their village. I will post these tomorrow when they are turned in. The campers that were elected are feeling very proud but even to be nominated is a great honor. I’m sure some guys are a little disappointed but there are many other leadership opportunities for guys to attain during the summer.

Last night we initiated the entire camp into “Quenotah”. The Founders of Horseshoe. We stressed the re-kindling and passing of the torches and the values that have been a part of Camp Horseshoe since its founding in 1932. It was a ceremony and night that will be with our boys for the rest of their lives. After being woken up at 10:00 P.M. to the sounds of Native-American music, the entire camp was led down to Doc Hirshberg field and put into the shape of a Horseshoe. I was canoed into camp by torch light and walked through a gauntlet of torches to where the boys were sitting. As I retold the story of Chief Namakagon and Doc Hirshberg a fire ball, meteorite, came from the climbing tower about 600 feet down into a wood pile and ignited a huge bon fire. Everyone was awed including me (that the whole thing worked!) Each camper was then called up individually to be presented a ceremonial leather necklace/breastplate which will be worn at all future Council Horseshoe meetings. As the boys complete a set of goals they will enter both the "little chiefs" and "Golden Horseshoe" and will earn regalia


If you are surprised by these traditions, you should be. They were invented, with little creativity if I may say so, at the beginning of this summer. I do not know where Indian culture has any relevance in your camp, except that the counselors and director have come from a camp that practiced these same EXACT traditions (except for the titles given to them, of course)-- why couldn't Jordan formulate a goal-oriented tradition that did not have to seem completely identical to that at another camp? Is he unitelligent, lazy, spiteful? I have no idea, but whatever his motive, (or lack of) is rather perposterous and an insult to the alumni of Horseshoe.

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 Re: why did Camp Horseshoe close?
Author: seisenst 
Date:   08-23-04 20:07

I may not do justice to your questions or make you believe any differently about Jordan and the traditions he brought with him to the new Camp Horseshoe.

I had the pleasure of attending the original Camp Horseshoe for eight summers as a camper (pioneer through ranger) and returned for a ninth summer as a counselor. Jordan and I were also in the oldest cabin together and maintain being friends today. During my eight years, I had the pleasure and honor of meeting Doc Hirshberg (he taught me how to fly fish), Gordy Morrison, Bob Mercer, Don Cohen, etc. The traditions that you refer to are similar to the traditions of the original Camp Horseshoe although some of the names changed. However, the chief is still the chief in name and spirit.

Some of the other counselors you mention, Harry Prendergast ("H") and Bill Engel, were counselors at the original Camp Horseshoe. Their returning to the new Camp Horseshoe is a testament to the strength and charachter of the original Camp Horseshoe.

To this day, I will never forget all the wonderful lessons I learned at camp and how going to Camp Horseshoe helped me grow personally.

Sheila, it warms my heart to hear of the wonderful experiences your son had at camp. Jordan and Fran are special people. I sure hope he goes back next summer for more terrific experiences.

Steve Eisenstein

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 Re: why did Camp Horseshoe close?
Author: seisenst 
Date:   08-23-04 20:07

I may not do justice to your questions or make you believe any differently about Jordan and the traditions he brought with him to the new Camp Horseshoe.

I had the pleasure of attending the original Camp Horseshoe for eight summers as a camper (pioneer through ranger) and returned for a ninth summer as a counselor. Jordan and I were also in the oldest cabin together and maintain being friends today. During my eight years, I had the pleasure and honor of meeting Doc Hirshberg (he taught me how to fly fish), Gordy Morrison, Bob Mercer, Don Cohen, etc. The traditions that you refer to are similar to the traditions of the original Camp Horseshoe although some of the names changed. However, the chief is still the chief in name and spirit.

Some of the other counselors you mention, Harry Prendergast ("H") and Bill Engel, were counselors at the original Camp Horseshoe. Their returning to the new Camp Horseshoe is a testament to the strength and charachter of the original Camp Horseshoe.

To this day, I will never forget all the wonderful lessons I learned at camp and how going to Camp Horseshoe helped me grow personally.

Sheila, it warms my heart to hear of the wonderful experiences your son had at camp. Jordan and Fran are special people. I sure hope he goes back next summer for more terrific experiences.

Steve Eisenstein

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 Re: why did Camp Horseshoe close?
Author: Sheila Wagner 
Date:   08-24-04 13:40

I have also heard that Jordan and Fran "stole" ideas from another camp they worked at for the past 10 years. Has anyone stopped to think that maybe Jordan had brought some of his ideas to that camp from the days he spent at Camp Horseshoe as a young boy. America is suposed to be a place were people can persue their dreams and it sounds to me like this was Fran and Jordan's dream. I have also heard that the camp he used to work at was full this year. If that camp is so great that it is full, why is it so horrible for someone to open a different camp that is also great. As long as both camps are doing well and boys are having a great time, what difference does it make.

I have read things in this forum where people working at others camps not involved in this whole thing want info. on how different programs are run, like the all night treasure hunt. Others are then posting info. about the program to help out other camps so other kids can have the experience.

Everyone in this world learns and hopefully grows from experiences in their lives. I am sure Jordan and Fran have taken things with them from every experience including old Camp Horseshoe and the camp they were working at. The people involved in that camp should not be mad but proud because other camps want to use some of their ideas because they are good.

Everyone needs to quit worrying about where ideas came from and be happy that the idea came at all. I am not sure where the tradition came from, nor do I care. I am just glad that my son went to a great camp and had the time of his life.

Sheila Wagner

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 Re: why did Camp Horseshoe close?
Author: -- 
Date:   08-24-04 14:26

You still didn't answer the question. At the original Horeshoe, did you have a High Council? A Golden Shoe? Anything that had to do with adding beads to necklaces? Sages? Chiefs? Anything at all to do with Indians? Whether or not you think Jordan and your camp to be great, these additions are not original, creative, or have anything do to with the original camp. There is a difference in bringing a treasure hunt to a camp-- an activity that is fun but not a necesity to making an amazing summer-- compared to bringing sacred traditions that are, (at another camp) the cornerstone to the camp's ideology and livelihood. And, when everyone says Jordan is great-- you forget something-- he is a great salesman-- he duped all of you, all of these counselors that, during the summer had several regrets about attending this camp-- he tricked these counselors with false promises. That's not the type of person that I would want raising my kids

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 Re: why did Camp Horseshoe close?
Author: Bill Engel 
Date:   08-27-04 08:11

My name is Bill Engel, one of the Assistant Directors at Horseshoe 2004, and a camper and counslor at Horseshoe from 1968-1984; my Dad, Marvin Engel, was a camper and counselor at Horseshoe 1934-40--and like him I was Master of All Night Treasure Hunt, a tradition that was very popular back in the 1930's no doubt around the country in those days among college kids, but to be sure this was an activity Doc Hirshberg enjoyed and furthered in his own way. He also instituted Golden Horseshoe Society, and yes there were plenty of Native American Tradtions then as when I was a camper/counselor. Sages, chiefs, the whole nine-yards; even visits to the model Native-American Village outside Hayward where the campers (on an honor trip) would learn about the woodcrafting traditions and regalia which we brought back with us to Camp Horseshoe. Most of our activities involving Golden Horseshoe remain honored secrets amoung members, so I am not at liberty to share the specifics of how we blended Indian traditions with the best of Doc H's honorable ideals and ideas and then integrated these into daily camp life (including Council Horseshoe, or High Council, call it what you will), but, rest assured, the spirit continues. Golden Horseshoe changed over the years at Camp Horseshoe and it continues to grow. While this may not satisfy the anonymous writer, I wanted to weigh in on this email string because it gives me a way to say Hello to Steve Eisenstein (glad to hear from you, old friend, and glad to know you are still in the Shoe) and to tell Ms. Wagner how excited I was to be able to work with her son this past summer, who shows no small promise as a fencer! With all best wishes, and looking forward to helping maintain the continuity from our old traditions to our new ones, I remain a loyal member of the original Golden Horseshoe Society and honored to be Sun Chieftain in the new, Bill

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 Re: why did Camp Horseshoe close?
Author: Sheila Wagner 
Date:   09-01-04 13:39

Thank you Mr. Engel for everything you and many others did at camp, my son will never forget it. Sheila

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 Re: why did Camp Horseshoe close?
Author: Olin Morrison 
Date:   09-09-04 11:16

I was raised at on Little Horseshoe Lake, in a cabin called Endowin. This cabin sat just up the hill from the lake behind swimming area and the tennis courts. I was raised at Camp Horseshoe not as a camper but as the Son of Scott Morrison, and the Grandchild of Gordy and Joan Morrison. The traditions of the Camp mean the world to me and to my father. They mean so much that at times I can feel a little bit bitter, which apparently others do too. My bitterness does not last long when I remember that it isn't the traditions that are important or who started them. No, the important thing is the MESSAGE, and that the message continues to be taught to the CHILDREN correctly free from rivalry and bitterness. "Hail to the Forest." is a concept that probably most people posting here agree with. So why must like minded people such as yourselves be so opposed to each other. Put to rest your bitterness and continue teaching the message correctly and everyones traditions will live on. Congratualtions to the staff and counselors of Sheilas son, it seems you are of the right mind set.
Olin Morrison

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 Re: why did Camp Horseshoe close?
Author: dwanoff 
Date:   04-22-10 08:33

BILL ENGEL! Holy cow! Blast from the past! Do you remember me?

Donald Anoff
'78-'81
dwanoff@verizon.net

Don Anoff

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 Re: why did Camp Horseshoe close?
Author: Lance Silverman 
Date:   08-26-12 17:56

Bill:
What a wonderful post. I am so happy to read that you are involved with the new Camp Horseshoe. I am looking for camps to send my son next summer. I have looked briefly, (no I am not the world's worst stalker) for you on line over the years and am really excited to finally find you. I look forward to hearing more about Horseshoe.

Lance Silverman (1979-1986)

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